Speaker 1: Diagnosing your partner as borderline, narcissistic, psychopath, you might be wrong.

Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners and viewers to another episode of Compare To Me.

Speaker 1: And today, totally impromptu, Steph and I had a talk about members of relationship diagnosing each other.

Speaker 1: And we have, like really healthy, slightly different opinions on how to approach this topic.

Speaker 1: So it wasn't actually the topic we came together to discuss, but this is what emerged naturally.

Speaker 1: So we're going to release the conversation.

Speaker 1: That's French for conversation.

Speaker 2: That's really good.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: So enjoy.

Speaker 1: Let's say there's a thousand people that are diagnosing their partners as there's something wrong with them.

Speaker 1: Surely there's some percentage of those people that are not qualified to diagnose.

Speaker 1: Now the person watching this video, that's not you.

Speaker 1: You are amazingly good, accurate diagnoser of other people.

Speaker 1: But some of your friends, right, your cousin, they're not as good as you at diagnosing people.

Speaker 1: They might want to watch this, but I want to reiterate, not you, the person looking at this video.

Speaker 1: You're amazing at diagnosing people, accurate.

Speaker 1: But don't you think there's some portion of people that are diagnosing their partners, whether you're diagnosing your partner as borderline, narcissistic, psychopath, that you might be wrong.

Speaker 1: Again, not the viewer, other people, right?

Speaker 1: You might be wrong.

Speaker 1: And there's a chance that like maybe 10 out of the thousand people watching this, they're not quite qualified to be giving other people mental health diagnoses.

Speaker 2: That's funny.

Speaker 2: I like that.

Speaker 1: I have to make sure the current viewer doesn't kill me for questioning just the unbelievable skills they have at diagnosing other people.

Speaker 2: That's one of my many skills.

Speaker 1: Oh, exactly.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And me not with my partner, though.

Speaker 1: Luckily, I have my diagnosis model just is very simple, though, like even though I'm a therapist, right, and I actually am qualified to diagnose people.

Speaker 1: I just have a very simple asshole, not asshole.

Speaker 1: Right out in the world.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: But everybody, including myself, seems to fall in the asshole column, which I find actually quite comforting.

Speaker 2: I have more of a like a I've got like a murder board.

Speaker 2: Oh, that's got like little red wires going to the different kinds of evidence that I have for people.

Speaker 1: I like it.

Speaker 1: I like it.

Speaker 1: I can see it now.

Speaker 1: Like something like out of seven or the wire.

Speaker 2: Like, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: This pictures, big red circle around them.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right, though.

Speaker 2: There's other people.

Speaker 1: Well, absolutely.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: Like, again, everybody watching this is completely right.

Speaker 1: It's other people that aren't qualified to diagnose other people.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: But this is the thing I always go like, look, if I was a rocket scientist, right, again, if I made rockets that could fly to Mars, nobody at a dinner party is going to give me their opinion on how to build a rocket.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: But, you know, I'm a, quote unquote, relationship expert.

Speaker 1: Everybody, the person next to me at a dinner table, they're going to go, hey, listen, I know how to make love and relationship work.

Speaker 1: You drop that effort like off at the curb and you drive away as fast as you can.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Like, you know, I mean, everybody has an opinion.

Speaker 1: Everybody's opinion is they hold it like rock solid and then they want confirmation.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: Of their opinion being valid.

Speaker 1: So they go out into the world and see confirmation of their opinion.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: Look, I totally get it.

Speaker 1: We all do the same thing.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: But at some point, the only way we grow is we get new information.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: And the number one way that I like to give people new information is you just expand your perspective from your own subjective experience that remember is totally valid.

Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: But then just seeing from this broader bird's eye view, it typically turns out the other person is actually totally valid and right, too.

Speaker 1: And you're both totally valid and totally right at the exact same time.

Speaker 1: Now, don't shoot me if you don't like that message.

Speaker 1: But you would grow as a human being if you were open and curious about considering you can still be right.

Speaker 1: And the systemic view is also right at the exact same time.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, it's funny.

Speaker 2: I guess the thing that always comes up because we've had like variations of this conversation like around diagnosis related to different things we're working on.

Speaker 2: But the thing that always comes up for me is when it's a situation where it's like, let's say there's like a personality disorder and there's like a there's a level of mistreatment.

Speaker 2: And then the people around a person who mistreats people consistently are constantly doubting themselves, like with the gaslighting, all that stuff.

Speaker 2: So the thing I think about when there's like, you're statistically probably not dealing with somebody who has like a severe, like personality disorder.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Is the percentage of people who are and are doubting themselves and like aren't sure how much leeway to give somebody like they keep giving and you know, whatever the different dynamics are.

Speaker 2: I mean, that's sort of a simplistic way to put it.

Speaker 1: But yeah, well, no, but see, this is my this is the point, right?

Speaker 1: I don't know how to deliver this message in a way that is skillful enough that people can hear there are people with personality disorders, there are for fact, there are narcissistic people.

Speaker 1: There are people with borderline personality disorder, right?

Speaker 1: There are people that, you know, lack all empathy, right?

Speaker 2: Or like sociopathic, or just have like, the way I see it is, it's almost like a developmental, how sad is it for them that they can't do the thing that absolutely other people get to do?

Speaker 2: That's like the real connection.

Speaker 2: There's just something there, you know, that's different.

Speaker 1: And well, there, there is something there.

Speaker 1: But this is where like, let's say, here's my sense of it from meeting couples, right from sitting with couples, and the couple come in, and one person has read every book on what it's like to be with a narcissistic partner.

Speaker 1: And the other person is secretly be reading what it's like to walk on eggshells with a borderline partner, right?

Speaker 1: And so they both come in, like with basically PhD level information about how to diagnose other people with their mental health problems, right?

Speaker 1: And then I talked to them, and I go, Hey, listen, neither of them are mentally ill, neither of them have personality disorders.

Speaker 1: They're actually behaving normally and rationally when you're with someone that looks at you as a mental person.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: So, so look, sure, one out of 1000 times, and I really mean it, maybe one out of 1000 times, someone comes in, and I'm like, Oh, shit, this person is full on borderline, or Oh, shit, that guy or woman, they're fully narcissistic, they have a borderline personality disorder, they have a narcissistic personality disorder.

Speaker 1: But think about that.

Speaker 1: That's one out of 1000 times.

Speaker 1: Now, look, maybe this is I just have this very small sample size of people that come to couples counseling.

Speaker 1: But I am if I was to project out those statistics, that would mean that most of the people on the interwebs that are convinced that their partner has a personality disorder is not true.

Speaker 1: It's understandable why they feel that way.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: But they don't actually have a personality disorder.

Speaker 1: They're just both locked in this system of judging, diagnosing each other.

Speaker 1: That is devastating for both of them.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, it is one of those things that I'd like to look at more of a if possible, like objective study in terms of relationships, but it's hard because if you're somebody who genuinely like has like narcissistic personality disorder, for instance, the incentives to go to therapy are very low.

Speaker 2: And like the sort of structures and systems that you have within your relationship dynamic allow for you to avoid ever like having to confront that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: So somebody in your seat, it just follows naturally for me, like logically that you would not necessarily encounter a high percentage.

Speaker 2: Yeah, even though people like are looking for help, you would think you would see more people with mental health disorders of various kinds, but that being a subset, but yeah, I agree that like, it's not going to be a huge percentage.

Speaker 1: And it's also not Yeah, but by the way, look, and I would challenge that in a way, right?

Speaker 1: One of the things that say with someone that has narcissistic personality disorder, it's not a problem for them.

Speaker 1: It's not a problem for them.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually part of how you know, right, that it's a personality disorder, like, it's so deeply embedded that it's a personality disorder, they don't have a problem.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So this is weirdly, they actually wouldn't mind coming to couples counseling.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it depends on what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: Because there's like a big threat in terms of ego, like, let's say that I'm somebody who has narcissistic personality disorder.

Speaker 2: And then I my partner is saying, like, we need to go to couples therapy, like, I'm not going to do this.

Speaker 2: I would see the couples therapist as like either a threat to like win over or as somebody to avoid because I don't want somebody else dealing with my thing.

Speaker 2: I'm perfectly happy.

Speaker 2: Like it's a threat to my situation.

Speaker 2: And it's a possible like somebody is going to hurt me in the way that actually matters to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, or they'll lose something that matters to them.

Speaker 1: But this is where see, I just feel it's the tail wagging the dog.

Speaker 1: Let's be generous and say it's it's 10 out of every 100 people out there that are diagnosed, I'm going to be really generous.

Speaker 1: 10 people out of every 100 people that have diagnosed their partner is having a narcissistic personality disorder or right.

Speaker 1: 10 I want to help the 90 Okay, I want to help the 90 that are, you know what, they don't actually have a narcissistic personality disorder.

Speaker 1: They may have some narcissistic traits.

Speaker 1: But listen, it makes sense.

Speaker 1: They have narcissistic traits when they're with a partner that thinks they're mentally ill.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: Just like by the way, you don't you're not acting particularly well right now either.

Speaker 1: But it makes sense.

Speaker 1: You're not acting particularly well right now because you're with a partner that's treating you like you're mentally ill.

Speaker 1: I want to help those 90 people.

Speaker 1: Like to me, that's what I mean.

Speaker 1: It's the tail wagging the dog, focusing on the 10 people that you're actually right.

Speaker 1: 99% of the relationship advice are people confirming and validating those 10 people of the hundred people.

Speaker 1: They don't need me.

Speaker 1: They don't need me.

Speaker 2: Well, they may not need you, but they may need somebody.

Speaker 1: They do need somebody but there's loads of people that's like it's like you're just walking down like a flea market.

Speaker 1: And you're looking for things that cost 99 cents.

Speaker 1: Like this is its own ending.

Speaker 1: It's just there's an unending supply of people that will validate how you protect yourself with a narcissist.

Speaker 1: But the other 90 people that wait, wait, wait, stop the light slow down.

Speaker 1: I don't think you're wrong, nor do I think your partner's wrong.

Speaker 1: And if we actually did some work to look at each other that way, and I'll help you.

Speaker 1: I actually think you can resolve this.

Speaker 1: I think those 90 people that are going down the wrong path because they're also walking through the flea market and they're very drawn to the 99 cents offers.

Speaker 1: I actually think they need the help and they're helpable.

Speaker 1: I can help them.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: I don't see this as I mean, I don't want to focus on listen, the 10 people are right.

Speaker 1: Your partner's narcissistic.

Speaker 1: Go look, there's a million people out there that will help you get away from and protect yourself from your narcissistic partner.

Speaker 1: I'm not going to I don't want to compete with their like, go there.

Speaker 1: They're better than me at that.

Speaker 1: But the other 90 people I can actually help you heal, love each other.

Speaker 1: And if you can't do it with each other, I'll get help you be able to get into a loving relationship the next time.

Speaker 2: I guess it makes sense.

Speaker 2: It's kind of like you see with activism where different people have different like passions and focuses and areas where they can contribute the most.

Speaker 1: And this is your area of expertise, the kind of people well, and by the way, I started to interrupt because that's a really important thing.

Speaker 1: Through the years, I've had my moments of trying to be an activist for being for one side.

Speaker 1: And I really mean it, right?

Speaker 1: Like I've had my being for the Palestinians.

Speaker 1: I've had my Black Lives Matter, right?

Speaker 1: I've had my I am passionately for one side of something.

Speaker 1: And I got to be honest, I'm not very good at it.

Speaker 1: I'm not very effective.

Speaker 1: I don't like what do I do?

Speaker 1: I get all upset, I share something and I haven't seen any value me personally.

Speaker 1: Like how do I give value to the world?

Speaker 1: I haven't been very valuable of being an activist for a particular side of an issue.

Speaker 1: But you know, what I seem to actually be good at is being a bridge builder between the Palestinians and the Israelis, right?

Speaker 1: For being someone that hey, I can understand conservative America and I can understand progressive America, I could be a bridge between them.

Speaker 1: I understand someone that thinks they're with a narcissistic person.

Speaker 1: And I understand some of the things their partners borderline.

Speaker 1: I'm not what I'm good at is being a bridge.

Speaker 1: And I have to work really hard to not go down the path that I'm actually honestly, I'm not very good at only advocating for just one person.

Speaker 1: I just I'm not very good at it.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: And thankfully, there's loads of people that are good at it.

Speaker 2: I guess what I'm seeing is that there's a bit of a gap between I think we can get the 10 I think we can get the 10 out of the 100 as we're getting the 90% of people who are not in a relationship with somebody with narcissistic personality disorder, etc.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a way to conceptualize just the same way that like, we can appeal to liberals and conservatives and recognize like, hey, me, for instance, being a liberal, I think that conservatives are wrong on many things.

Speaker 2: But there's something a need there that has to be met.

Speaker 2: I think there's a way to do that for most relationships are not like one person has a legitimate personality disorder for the people who are here's how to recognize the patterns that you're getting in as genuinely maybe an abusive situation versus No, this is what it usually is a relationship that just has a lot of suffering in it and trauma, etc.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: No, listen, I agree with you completely.

Speaker 1: And of course, we can help those people, right?

Speaker 1: Of course we can.

Speaker 1: But here's what, you know, as you know, my axe to grind is the 90 people are being drawn to the point of view and the opinion of the 10.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 2: So we Well, yes, I agree with that.

Speaker 2: That is a real problem.

Speaker 2: And probably technically the bigger one because percentage wise.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the gap in like my perspective versus yours is that for the 10 people, the narcissism, like over diagnosing thing is very recent, but in personal lives, they're experiencing a lot of feedback that no, this is normal.

Speaker 2: So both sides kind of do need the messaging.

Speaker 1: Yes, they do.

Speaker 1: They do.

Speaker 2: But we want it to be like sized correctly, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: We want to be sized correctly.

Speaker 1: Of course, heart goes out validate the pain of someone that I'm truly with someone that's narcissistic, and I'm never going to get my needs met that person deserves a lot of empathy and care.

Speaker 1: But what's happening right now is that person in that pain, and the way they're validated by the relationship help self development industry at large, that is the dominant message out there validated and love yourself, look after yourself.

Speaker 1: Don't like put yourself out there and be at risk of being hurt in love with a narcissist that is infecting the other 90 people, right that are in a relationship that sure they're partners of pain in the ass, but they're not they don't have a narcissistic personality disorder.

Speaker 1: They don't.

Speaker 1: But the relationship advice out there is really compelling.

Speaker 1: And it's and everybody's validating got confirmation bias, and it's hurting more people than it's helping.

Speaker 1: But don't get me wrong, it is helping the 10.

Speaker 1: But it's hurting the 90.

Speaker 1: And it's making relationship work very difficult for the vast majority of people, right?

Speaker 1: And so make sense, validate the hell out of the 10.

Speaker 1: Fucking my heart goes out to you.

Speaker 1: But for God's sake, let's save the 90 from going down a blind alley where they're going to get mugged.

Speaker 1: And nothing good is going to happen down there.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's just a it's a hard thing in terms of it being for the 10.

Speaker 2: Oh, people finally kind of see that this is a thing at the same time as like, oh, no, people are seeing this in places that is not which is annoying also for making it seem less serious than it is putting it on relationships that are not relevant.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is the pendulum always swings too far, right?

Speaker 1: Nobody was listening to these people that were with narcissistic partners.

Speaker 1: And now there's this information comes out.

Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden, everybody's a narcissist.

Speaker 2: Yeah, which is not helping anybody really.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it but does it like so look, and I like to think we're trying to skillfully kindly, without hurting and invalidating the people that are truly with narcissistic partners are aware and their trauma is real and valid.

Speaker 1: And they love they deserve all the empathy, love and kindness in the world, that we can validate them be there for them.

Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: Not going to challenge you on it.

Speaker 1: But there I wanted like, are there are there any people out there that maybe your partner is not a narcissist is just actually the way they behave is a consequence of the system that you both create together just like the way you behave is a consequence of the system that you both created with each other.

Speaker 1: And if that's true for, okay, one out of 100.

Speaker 1: Maybe we could help that one out of like, I think it's a 90 out of 100.

Speaker 1: But let's say it was only one out of 199% of you are absolutely right.

Speaker 1: The other person's mental, some version of mental, right?

Speaker 1: Well, I actually think we could solve and save one relationship and help those people love each other.

Speaker 1: Because both of the way they're diagnosing each other is making things worse.

Speaker 1: That's the problem.

Speaker 1: You're both human beings, you're hurting in love, you're completely valid.

Speaker 1: And it's devastating to be on the receiving end of being told you're too much, which is what you're basically telling someone if you're diagnosing them as borderline.

Speaker 1: You're telling them you're too much if you're saying you're borderline.

Speaker 1: And if you're telling someone you're narcissists, you're basically saying you're not enough, right?

Speaker 2: I was thinking about that.

Speaker 2: I was comparing the pursuer energy of borderline personality disorder versus a narcissist because the withdrawers core pain is like, I'm not enough sort of like a self image thing versus like a will the other person be there for me?

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two sides of shame, right?

Speaker 1: There's the one side of the coin is complete, like sinking into complete not enoughness to collapse and not enoughness.

Speaker 1: And on the other side of shame, how one deals is grandiosity, which is like narcissistic personality disorders, the ultimate expression of I'll avoid my shame and unworthiness through like, absolute grandiosity, right?

Speaker 2: The biggest character strategy you've ever seen.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: And borderline is the same, right?

Speaker 1: Like, you know, oversimplification, right?

Speaker 1: But I'm hurting so much by being alone, and no one's there for me.

Speaker 1: And I am going to wail like a banshee.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: And like, and, you know, like, I love you.

Speaker 1: I love you be close to me, right?

Speaker 1: On one hand, you're the best person in the world.

Speaker 1: And then when it looks like I'm really I'm going to be abandoned, I'm going to like the coven of witches, like ready to rip apart, you know, whatever, whoever's going to be sacrificed on the altar, right of my abandonment, right?

Speaker 1: So look, yeah, so the one partner looks at their pursuer, anxiously attached partner, and they see their level of protest, and they go, Whoa, you're too much, you're borderline.

Speaker 1: And then the anxiously attached person that's like, you're not here for me.

Speaker 1: Where are you?

Speaker 1: And I'm really anxious.

Speaker 1: You're not here.

Speaker 1: They look at their partner and say, you're so not enough.

Speaker 1: You're a narcissist.

Speaker 1: Look, heartbreaking for both of them.

Speaker 1: And I, I believe I can help them.

Speaker 1: Both of them 90% of the time, 10% of them, they're totally right about each other.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: And they're beyond help.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think at some point, science is advancing, we may find a way to help people with more severe personality disorder things.

Speaker 2: Yeah, almost developmental, almost like a disability, like just can't get the thing that other people can access.

Speaker 1: Yeah, look, you know, of course, one day.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I believe it can help those people.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: It's the same as gobermonte, who I really love, right?

Speaker 1: Like, like, how does he help people with addiction?

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: Like addiction is the last ditch effort of the psyche to stay home.

Speaker 1: Like, you know, all of this stuff I do isn't working.

Speaker 1: Even my personality disorder is not working.

Speaker 1: I'm fucking like maybe drugs and alcohol will keep me survive like survived on lovedness.

Speaker 1: It's basically surviving on lovedness.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: So what's the medicine?

Speaker 1: Love?

Speaker 1: But you know, that's expensive, right?

Speaker 1: It's, it's cheaper to give someone a drug, right?

Speaker 1: Like a one like that's like prescriptions are really cheap and scalable as a business.

Speaker 1: prescriptions are scalar does.

Speaker 1: And again, prescriptions are good.

Speaker 1: They're valid.

Speaker 1: He's just not getting into it.

Speaker 1: But 10 out of 100, let's be generous 10 of 100 times prescriptions are good.

Speaker 1: But 90% of the time, a friggin lifetime course of love would have worked better.

Speaker 1: Right now, or both some combination of both Jesus like, you know, there's always every look, you're the 10 you the listener or the 10 you're valid, the prescription is everything.

Speaker 1: But there's some portion we don't have to argue about whether it's 90%.

Speaker 1: What would have been better is a long term course of daily weekly love for the part of you that got hurt developmentally stunted, and that we could actually get the love we needed now and every day going into the future.

Speaker 1: I'm gonna like get in trouble again.

Speaker 2: Yeah, by me specifically.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: But I Yeah, I'm looking forward to to seeing what in terms of personality disorders, what the next like therapy dispensary, you know, technology?

Speaker 1: Yeah, what's next?

Speaker 1: Yeah, remember, we went through women are histrionic, we went through like, you know, women are borderline where we're deep in the men are narcissists, right?

Speaker 1: I don't know what's next, right?

Speaker 1: What's the next one going to be?

Speaker 2: What's the next one?

Speaker 1: I know, there's going to be a mass movement of diagnosing people.

Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm looking forward to seeing what the revelations are in terms of like what's really happening for things.

Speaker 2: And which is not me saying that narcissistic personality disorder doesn't exist.

Speaker 2: I mean, I just argued for it for like, you know, however long this has been, of course, it exists.

Speaker 2: But in terms of like, can people be helped?

Speaker 2: You know, what can be done?

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I really believe people can be helped, right?

Speaker 1: Look, it's not that different than when people used to have, like, you know, psychotic breaks, right?

Speaker 1: Like back in the day, you would just people had the time I didn't have to work two jobs, they are living in a community.

Speaker 1: Like, but like four or five community members would stay in a room or run out into the woods with that person and be with them.

Speaker 1: While they went through their psychotic break.

Speaker 1: We didn't fucking medicate them.

Speaker 1: We didn't throw them off into an institution until they got their shit together.

Speaker 1: They stayed in the community, and people stayed with them and help them move through that moment.

Speaker 1: And then you know, like, we don't meet people the way we used to.

Speaker 1: We don't keep them close to us, keep them in the community.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: We don't keep it's not all out in the open.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: I love this Irish comedian, Tommy Tiernan.

Speaker 1: He talks about in old Ireland, when there was the mad person in the village, you you didn't send them to hospital, you would just send them off into the fields for the day.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: And they come back for lunch for a sandwich with the cross cut off.

Speaker 1: Right?

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: But you know, you're like, everybody was still part of the village, the community, right?

Speaker 1: Now all of this stuff is hidden.

Speaker 1: People are like, again, or be medicated privately.

Speaker 1: It's no longer a community thing.

Speaker 1: And we don't meet these things as a community, which is sad.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it might be a bit of a generalization in terms of like how people will react to anybody going outside the lines of sort of expected behavior, things seeming scary, or, yeah, you know, everyone in history hasn't always reacted to somebody having like a mental difference with, with like acceptance and care.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: They didn't just send them out in the fields to run around.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: But we could definitely we could definitely use more of it.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: Obviously, there are other stories in history of today, right, that people get their lives are threatened and taken away if they're different, right, for sure.

Speaker 2: But um, that's a nice little chat.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Thank you again for joining us today for this impromptu conversation about diagnosing our partners and relationship and what's the best way we here at empathy can help the conversation will continue between Steph and I and with our staff here at empathy.

Speaker 1: So I'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: Remember, we're here find us at empathy.com empathy with an eye on the n not a y in the n.com.

Speaker 2: Thanks.

Speaker 1: Thanks, Steph.

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