Speaker 2: What?

Speaker 2: How are we, couples therapists?

Speaker 2: Welcome back to Come Here to Me with Figs and Teal.

Speaker 2: Today, I have no idea what we're going to talk about.

Speaker 2: Teal wanted to make sure that the topic of today was a surprise, which as some of you may have listened to the show in the past or watched videos, you might know that I can be a bit of a worrier and a control freak.

Speaker 2: So going in blind, of course, is a lovely little extra thing to worry about.

Speaker 2: So with no further ado.

Speaker 1: So here's the deal.

Speaker 1: This is something that has been a part of Figs and my relationship since almost the beginning.

Speaker 1: And it's a bit of a hairy topic for us.

Speaker 1: And Figs does not like talking about it.

Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily like talking about it either.

Speaker 1: And I'm a little nervous.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: I'm nervous.

Speaker 2: I'm nervous now.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Well, we're nervous, but we're nervous together and we're nervous with all of you.

Speaker 1: So here's the idea.

Speaker 1: If a lot of us think back to the beginnings of our relationships, right?

Speaker 1: Sometimes we start dating and we haven't closed apps.

Speaker 1: Sometimes we're dating.

Speaker 1: We like just broke up with someone.

Speaker 1: It can just be a little bit messy in terms of how things start.

Speaker 1: So a lot of times I talk to couples and they have some of these little injuries along.

Speaker 2: I'm not getting less nervous.

Speaker 2: Just want to point that out.

Speaker 2: I'll go on.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you're just like still sitting next to me.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: And so my idea here was to kind of like slow things down between Figs and I.

Speaker 1: There was a moment of rupture that happened early on in our relationship.

Speaker 1: And I would like to say Figs right now, just so you don't leave.

Speaker 1: It wasn't just you making a rupturous moment.

Speaker 1: I also had a rupturous moment that I know we talked about, but I think it kind of got like washed away.

Speaker 1: So I thought we'd give our clients or viewers a chance to see how you can talk about something that's really hard and really painful.

Speaker 1: Maybe from the beginning of a relationship and try to slow things down.

Speaker 1: And I'm super nervous right now.

Speaker 1: And I know Figs is nervous, so I don't expect you guys to not be nervous, but I just thought we'd try it.

Speaker 2: There's nervous and then there's like being ambushed.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: Right?

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: There's like, there's a, but go on, go on.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: What is it?

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Well, I don't want you to feel ambushed.

Speaker 1: I mean, feel what you feel.

Speaker 1: But the idea is how to do an injury repair.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: So if we think about the bond between a couple, we're thinking about like this umbilical cord, strong, beautiful.

Speaker 1: There are ruptures.

Speaker 1: There's pain points.

Speaker 1: That time the mother-in-law didn't do this.

Speaker 1: That time you didn't get me this one thing.

Speaker 1: There's all sorts of these things.

Speaker 1: And a lot of times we repair them or we can't have conflict around them.

Speaker 1: Sometimes they're just sort of like, like a splinter in our side and they never really go away.

Speaker 1: And so Figs and I have one of these and it doesn't go super well.

Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us what it is?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: So Figs and I met, as you guys know, in a really beautiful place at Esalen.

Speaker 1: And we had this like hot, amazing, fiery, spiritual connection.

Speaker 1: And so we hooked up at Esalen.

Speaker 1: Outside of Esalen, we also connected early on and that was like the beginning of our relationship on the outside.

Speaker 2: In the real world.

Speaker 1: In the real world.

Speaker 2: Not just like the personal development retreat world.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: Like where we're in like steamy saunas and hot tubs.

Speaker 2: Yeah, like naked hot tubs.

Speaker 2: And dancing.

Speaker 2: And dancing.

Speaker 1: And watching whales and doing like gestalt exercises.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: You got it.

Speaker 2: We had to return to the real world.

Speaker 1: We did.

Speaker 1: And we had such a great connection.

Speaker 1: So when that happened, we got together in the real world.

Speaker 1: And then I went off.

Speaker 1: I was actually living in the wilderness.

Speaker 1: So I went off for like, I was going to go for like a month.

Speaker 1: And Figs and I were not monogamous.

Speaker 1: We hadn't had some convo like do not date other people or we're monogamous.

Speaker 1: We were super early on in our relationship.

Speaker 1: But I'm going to be honest.

Speaker 1: I was like head over heels for Figs.

Speaker 1: And I was really excited.

Speaker 1: And we had like a lot of contact.

Speaker 1: Like texts.

Speaker 1: I don't think we called a lot.

Speaker 1: There was this period of time where Figs stopped texting me for like three or four days.

Speaker 1: And of course, even back then, right?

Speaker 1: We had the social media, we had Facebook.

Speaker 1: I internet stalked Figs on Facebook and saw that there was some kind of communication that he was going to be hanging out with his ex because she's a musician.

Speaker 1: And I noticed that it correlated the lack of communication with me around this time where Figs was going to be with his ex.

Speaker 1: And so I was super anxious.

Speaker 1: I was super anxious.

Speaker 1: Do you want me to keep going or do you want to jump?

Speaker 2: No, you can keep going.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's a big topic, but go ahead.

Speaker 1: It is a big topic.

Speaker 1: And I'm not here to be like, let me spank your booty.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I'm also here like just to.

Speaker 2: Fix my collar.

Speaker 1: Fix your collar.

Speaker 2: Now it's a court date.

Speaker 1: Now it's a court date.

Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1: Yeah, but by the way, like, yeah, I punished in response to this.

Speaker 1: So that's why like I don't see this as like Figs is a bad, terrible person.

Speaker 1: I think, oh my gosh, like we went through something hard.

Speaker 1: Actually, we came out of it, I thought, really strong.

Speaker 1: It's part of our story and it's actually a good part of our story.

Speaker 1: But I bring it up even to this day, you guys in like kind of shitty ways.

Speaker 2: But again, finish what it is.

Speaker 2: You haven't actually just defined what it is.

Speaker 2: What's the injury?

Speaker 1: But I'm trying to co-regulate you right now.

Speaker 2: Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2: The easiest way is to just come out with what it is.

Speaker 2: People could probably connect dots, but be explicit.

Speaker 1: I will.

Speaker 1: I will.

Speaker 1: Believe me, I'm going to relish being explicit.

Speaker 1: Go ahead.

Speaker 1: Just kidding.

Speaker 1: So after those couple days, Figs jumped back on communication with me.

Speaker 1: It was super sweet.

Speaker 1: We didn't like have a combo on the phone or anything.

Speaker 1: We just had some nice texts.

Speaker 1: And then I think like seven to ten days later, I was driving back through and I was going to hang out with Figs in person finally.

Speaker 1: My month of wilderness time was over.

Speaker 1: I was like going over the Golden Gate Bridge and bless Figs' like amazing soul.

Speaker 1: He called me up because we were planning to hang out that evening.

Speaker 1: Okay?

Speaker 1: And Figs told me that he had hooked up with his ex-girlfriend during that time.

Speaker 1: He just like offered it.

Speaker 1: I didn't like interrogate him.

Speaker 1: He just told me.

Speaker 1: And I was really mad.

Speaker 1: And I was hurt, you know, and I mean, I'd done plenty of love and relationship, but I was very, very connected to Figs.

Speaker 1: And I was just crushed.

Speaker 1: And I acted really mad.

Speaker 1: Like I was mean.

Speaker 1: I was like, I'm worried about STD.

Speaker 1: You know, I like just critical and disappointed.

Speaker 1: And I just wanted to push him away from me because I was hurting inside.

Speaker 1: And I think I said, I can't talk to you right now.

Speaker 1: I think I happened to have some other conflict with like another family.

Speaker 1: It was like a really crap drive.

Speaker 1: And so we got off the phone.

Speaker 1: And then, you know, Figs proceeded to pursue me a lot.

Speaker 1: I think he showed up kind of on my doorstep actually that evening and took me for a delicious sushi.

Speaker 1: But I was still Mrs. Maddie Pants.

Speaker 1: I was mad and I was mad and I was mad.

Speaker 1: And I felt kind of stupid that I was so mad.

Speaker 2: So I, you're literally, I don't remember this.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 2: I mean, of course, I remember that I hooked up with my ex-girlfriend.

Speaker 2: I'm not trying to like, oh, I don't even remember like who did that.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: But you're like, I called you up and I volunteered the information and told you I'd done this.

Speaker 2: I'm trying not to be defensive in any way.

Speaker 2: But so what the intention, the unstated intention of why I did that was why.

Speaker 2: Like what was the reasoning?

Speaker 2: Does it seem like how did it land that I told you that?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, you're better at this even with our kids than me.

Speaker 1: Like when someone tells you the truth, it's like you want to praise them.

Speaker 1: I just am so like lowly.

Speaker 1: Sometimes I was just like, well, fuck you.

Speaker 1: But the intention was that I was important to you and that you cared and that you were best of all.

Speaker 1: You told me.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: Like it would have been so easy to never say anything about this connection.

Speaker 1: So I did feel that I felt it in my bones, but I didn't feel it in any other part of me.

Speaker 1: So I was just really stuck with being mad.

Speaker 2: It makes sense.

Speaker 2: But like, just to be good.

Speaker 2: So we got together and did magical retreat, personal development, emotional hippie people place.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Self-development people place.

Speaker 2: We had amazing connection.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And we were, you know, like very close.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 2: And then we got together after we met there and we were very close with each other.

Speaker 2: I bless myself when I say we're really close.

Speaker 2: And then there was some period of time you went away.

Speaker 2: You're off at your aunt's or whatever godmother's place.

Speaker 2: And I hooked up with my ex-girlfriend and that was a big betrayal of you.

Speaker 2: And I volunteered the information that we did this.

Speaker 2: And I genuinely, I don't even mean this as a defense of me.

Speaker 2: Like I'm literally putting together, like, and it makes sense.

Speaker 2: So we're here, we're married kids, right?

Speaker 2: 12 years later.

Speaker 2: I'm just assuming I did that because I actually really wanted to be in relationship with you.

Speaker 2: I know it sounds like I'm just defending myself, right?

Speaker 2: But like, I must've told you because like I really wanted to make sure that it didn't get in the way of us being together.

Speaker 2: Again, I'm old.

Speaker 2: My memory's bad, but that's where we are.

Speaker 2: And you were really mad at me.

Speaker 2: You were punishing, which again, totally makes sense.

Speaker 1: That, and I'm really glad we're talking about it right now because as we're talking about it, I feel like you wanted to give me a choice and like you weren't disempowering me.

Speaker 1: You weren't going to lie to me.

Speaker 1: Like you cared enough about our relationship to be like, dude, we could go far together.

Speaker 1: I don't want to have this secret inside of me.

Speaker 1: Again, we were not committed.

Speaker 1: There was no explicit commitment.

Speaker 1: So figs didn't really do anything wrong, but it still hurt.

Speaker 1: It still hurt and shocked me.

Speaker 1: And anyway, the point is I think that over the years, like from that time, it's been hard for us to talk about it.

Speaker 1: And probably because we get into a cycle.

Speaker 1: Like I use this.

Speaker 1: You guys, I use this.

Speaker 1: 12 years later, like ring on my finger.

Speaker 1: By the way, not wearing a ring right now, but ring on my finger.

Speaker 1: Two beautiful kids.

Speaker 1: Like I am so committed to figs and I feel like our relationship is better than ever.

Speaker 1: And I know he's really committed to me.

Speaker 1: But I use this.

Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest.

Speaker 1: I use it in funny ways.

Speaker 2: You use it passive, aggressive.

Speaker 1: I use it passive aggressively, but I am really funny with how I use it.

Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into it.

Speaker 2: It doesn't land particularly like it's funny, but I hear you.

Speaker 2: You make yourself laugh.

Speaker 1: I make myself laugh.

Speaker 2: That's great.

Speaker 1: That's good for you.

Speaker 1: That's good in and of itself.

Speaker 1: But probably because I use it passive aggressively and use it in these kind of like light moments, it can feel like a hard place to just really heal.

Speaker 1: Because figs and I have not really talked about this.

Speaker 1: And I would like to also say, I know you knew this at the time, I was so pissed off and figs was really good at like being loving and showing up for me.

Speaker 1: And we did some really wonderful bonding things.

Speaker 1: And, you know, clearly our relationship had enough resilience, even at such a kind of wobbly stage, that we could get over this and keep going.

Speaker 1: I wasn't like, screw you.

Speaker 1: I was like, this is tough.

Speaker 1: I don't want to be around you.

Speaker 1: He's like, I want to be around you.

Speaker 1: Like, what can we do?

Speaker 1: Let's go to Harbin.

Speaker 1: Let's go to sushi.

Speaker 1: And I was just, you know, like there was a lot of heart there.

Speaker 2: Harbin Hot Springs.

Speaker 1: Harbin Hot Springs.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: Or a bonding day.

Speaker 1: Should we tell them about the dolphin diving?

Speaker 2: I don't know.

Speaker 1: That's another podcast.

Speaker 2: That's just too traumatic.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Bookmarking.

Speaker 1: But anyway.

Speaker 2: Well, look, very quickly.

Speaker 2: Dolphin diving.

Speaker 2: We did this little workshop at Harbin Hot Springs.

Speaker 2: Again, we're not even that hippie anymore.

Speaker 1: Let's just be clear.

Speaker 1: This is our only other.

Speaker 1: Other than Esalen.

Speaker 2: We had to be underwater with other naked people.

Speaker 1: With goggles.

Speaker 2: With goggles on.

Speaker 2: It was just like in a hot tub.

Speaker 2: Like, it's not like a big space.

Speaker 2: We were really up close and personal with goggles on.

Speaker 1: Just did one dolphin dive and boom.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Just into the mix.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of sobered me up.

Speaker 1: We still talk about this with dolphin diving.

Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no more dolphin diving after that.

Speaker 2: I wear a lock on my underpants now.

Speaker 2: In hot tubs.

Speaker 2: And everyone else has to have underpants on.

Speaker 2: In case I ever come face-to-face with their junk.

Speaker 2: But anyway, we did do that.

Speaker 2: That was very bonding.

Speaker 2: There is something afterwards.

Speaker 2: Recovering from being face-to-face with other people's junk.

Speaker 2: In hot water.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we can get through this.

Speaker 1: Okay, so you did all the right things.

Speaker 1: But I'm not here to tell our viewers how you did all the right things.

Speaker 1: After an injury.

Speaker 1: I'm here to say, I think I'm injured.

Speaker 1: And talking about it helps me.

Speaker 1: And not being a passive-aggressive actually gives me a chance.

Speaker 1: To tell you that I was really hurt by that.

Speaker 1: And by the way, and that I hurt you back.

Speaker 1: Viewers, please listen.

Speaker 1: Or listeners.

Speaker 1: I also was intimate with my ex after this happened.

Speaker 2: What?

Speaker 2: Big reveal.

Speaker 2: Did I know that?

Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1: I told you right after it happened.

Speaker 1: I think I was just so immature.

Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, you actually did quite a childish tit-for-tat.

Speaker 1: I did.

Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: No, well.

Speaker 2: But it's good that you're admitting it.

Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: And I did then.

Speaker 2: How are we couples therapists?

Speaker 2: What do you mean?

Speaker 2: Like doing childish tit-for-tats.

Speaker 1: Hey, that was before I became a couples therapist.

Speaker 2: I've come a long way.

Speaker 1: But, yeah.

Speaker 1: So, clearly, yeah.

Speaker 1: There was someone that did mean a lot to me.

Speaker 1: But it had not been a romantic relationship.

Speaker 1: But we did get intimate.

Speaker 1: We did not have sex.

Speaker 1: But we got intimate.

Speaker 2: No sexy time.

Speaker 1: No sexy time.

Speaker 1: And I think I did it as kind of a punishment.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: I don't like admitting that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you did it as a protest behavior.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I did it as a protest behavior.

Speaker 2: Because your feelings are hurt.

Speaker 2: You're feeling hurt.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: There was a flavor of love withheld.

Speaker 2: It really, really hurt by me.

Speaker 2: It really hurt deep down inside.

Speaker 2: And then you have to do something to protest.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: It's a totally normal human storyline, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You reach out to an ex and you play naked.

Speaker 2: Patty cake, patty cake.

Speaker 2: Like, it totally makes sense.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 1: Well.

Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel good.

Speaker 2: It's really brave of you to admit it, though.

Speaker 1: Just then?

Speaker 1: At that time?

Speaker 1: Or right now?

Speaker 1: Just that whole process.

Speaker 2: That you got, look, I got hurt.

Speaker 2: I wasn't able to deal with my feelings.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: You did a bit of, which is my first time I experienced.

Speaker 2: You don't do this very often, right?

Speaker 2: You did a little bit of the, you know.

Speaker 2: That's what I.

Speaker 2: You did a bit of the shouting and roaring at me.

Speaker 2: Like you were.

Speaker 2: You were, I'm so tough.

Speaker 2: I don't take no shit.

Speaker 2: You did a little bit of that.

Speaker 1: Like.

Speaker 2: And then you went off and did your.

Speaker 1: Well, I think part of what I'd like to say is that it felt very egotistical.

Speaker 1: Like, it was, it was a different part of me that it was like, yeah, I'm fucking hot shit.

Speaker 1: Like, I'm the person who's going to go hook up with my ex.

Speaker 1: I'm going to hook up with someone else.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Don't you be thinking you're going to go hook up with this?

Speaker 1: Like it's that part of me.

Speaker 1: And that part of me had been really alive before you and I met, which was, it was like a big way of getting validation as being attractive and wanting that attention, sexual energy from.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: You know, opposite sex or same sex.

Speaker 1: And just feeling like that was my place of power.

Speaker 1: So I'm kind of excited that there's a lot of other places where I feel places of power, but that was a major place.

Speaker 1: And I, that's where I went.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Which by the way, look on that, just want to be really clear.

Speaker 2: Firstly, it makes sense.

Speaker 2: It really hurt that I hooked up, I'll use that expression you've been using, right.

Speaker 2: With my ex girlfriend, right.

Speaker 2: It totally makes sense.

Speaker 2: And in an ideal world, if that was the place I was at, I would, I should have been really transparent with you on the front end, not like on the back end.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Like, look, obviously there's some like minor little tiny high five that I was transparent on the back end.

Speaker 2: But, but I should have like actually told you on the front end as opposed to, Oh, we hadn't made agreements.

Speaker 2: I should have like told you that, you know, and this is where I want to make sure it's not like a defense saying this part is like, look, you know, I had not that long ago finished a different relationship with a different ex.

Speaker 2: I was still emotionally, what I thought was unavailable to meet someone new.

Speaker 2: And then I met you and it was amazing.

Speaker 2: And I loved you so much.

Speaker 2: And I was so crazy about you.

Speaker 2: But I also was in a moment where I was starting to come out of the kind of funk of a breakup and feeling like I was sexy fig.

Speaker 2: And you know, like a sexy fig.

Speaker 2: And I was like, Ooh, I was also susceptible to getting validation through being wanted, desirable.

Speaker 2: And like, it's really like, I find this really embarrassing and shameful to talk about.

Speaker 2: Like I really like to be seductive.

Speaker 2: Like it was a big part of how I showed up in the world.

Speaker 1: Yes, I will attest to that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: So look, like it was some part of whatever inadequacy, like there was some part of like there was a particular persona that I would do to feel valid and good about myself.

Speaker 1: I just appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 1: I think that's really brave.

Speaker 1: You know, like, I think it's good to just name some of these strategies.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And look, you and I both had that one.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: And and so I wasn't quite ready.

Speaker 2: It was kind of an abrupt meeting you was an like it was wanted on one level was amazing.

Speaker 2: But on another level, the sexy fig was really not particularly happy about the idea that you're now going to stop being like, Oh, let me go get validation from other people and be sexy.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Like, so I just wasn't quite there.

Speaker 2: I just wasn't quite there.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: And I should have been much more transparent and clear.

Speaker 1: Well, to let let our listeners know, like, I had intentionally been not romantic for about six months prior to meeting figs.

Speaker 1: I had had just some really hard romantic experiences before I learned about this wonderful stuff that that we're helping, you know, help others get and the kind of work we do.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Honestly, Jay, I was jaded and I was heartbroken and and I had done a lot of heartbreaking and I was just over it.

Speaker 1: And so I had had this is kind of like this intense dude, six months, like no sexy, sexy time.

Speaker 1: I was living in the wilderness during that time, literally living in the literally living in the wilderness.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Like lots of time by myself.

Speaker 1: And so I wasn't expecting to meet someone when I met figs.

Speaker 1: I was kind of like, well, I'm not late into I don't I think I had had like nine months or a year.

Speaker 1: I was like, Michael, and I was like, this is not quite my goal time.

Speaker 1: But I was flexible when I met figs to to, you know, be like, oh, swept off my feet.

Speaker 1: But I just wanted to let you know, like, as you're saying where you were at, like you also had some, you know, we won't go into it, but you had some special juju with the person that you did end up hooking up with.

Speaker 1: And you were really newly out of a different breakup.

Speaker 1: So it totally makes sense that like, you know, the readiness levels were just a little bit different, right?

Speaker 1: As they happen.

Speaker 1: Maybe that happened in your guys relationship, too.

Speaker 1: But I think one thing to just let you know, and here's how the injury repair continues to go deeper, you can tell figs are going slowly and both being pretty vulnerable is, you know, you're saying, oh, I should I should have let you know on the front end, or and at least I let you know on the back end, which certainly was meaningful.

Speaker 1: And I think just the like, childlike part of me that gets kind of frozen was like those three days where I didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 1: Like I was, I was like, anxious, and I was sad.

Speaker 1: And like, I had a sense.

Speaker 1: And it was just really sad.

Speaker 1: Like, that was a sad, sad couple days for me.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And I was so relieved when you came back into the picture.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: But I was heartbroken.

Speaker 1: Like in that moment, I was like, oh, my God, this like, amazing thing.

Speaker 1: And then it this is it can go away so fast.

Speaker 1: So it really shook like it went down to like, little baby teal to being like, you can have good things in your life, but then they go away.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: It really touched a deep place of feeling abandoned, left behind.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 2: I love you.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2: I really get it.

Speaker 2: Look, it would have like, that that would have hurt so much.

Speaker 2: Like I'm knowing you as I do now, like what some of your, you know, core wounds are, right?

Speaker 2: Like that, being left in the left behind, I've lost the connection.

Speaker 2: There's no way to get it back.

Speaker 2: You're in kind of this like we you say, like, it's three days, but at the time, you didn't know it was three days.

Speaker 2: It was an open ended, I'm alone, you're gone.

Speaker 2: And you just like that would be crazy, making really painful, scary, sad place, right?

Speaker 2: It makes sense.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: That's okay.

Speaker 1: Thanks.

Speaker 1: It really helps me just to like, hone in, because I didn't even know like, what was the part that like, hurt the most, right?

Speaker 1: And so just like having you plugged it back to me, and this, like, know me, like, you know me, and to just like, kind of, it's, it's so weird.

Speaker 1: It's like, that's like the little kid part.

Speaker 1: It's just like something bad could happen.

Speaker 1: It's not the like, what you should have told me or this, this, this is just like kind of that frozen.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: It's like something bad could happen.

Speaker 2: And then there's no way to get back to good.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: You're stuck there.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean, I think it, there's like, there's other core parts that are like, good things won't happen.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: You know, like see that it wasn't really good.

Speaker 1: And so that, that's, you know, that's not something that we're going to go into in more detail here for you guys right now.

Speaker 2: Such as other stories, other negative love stories, like deep attachments.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Like stuff, stuff with like being a kid.

Speaker 1: And so like, that's why it's just helpful to put my pain out on the table and just to have this, like, you know, snuggle it together and, you know, and then I can look at my life and be like, well, so many good things have happened.

Speaker 1: You know, it's like, there's disconfirming evidence and I'm a very privileged person.

Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to say good things don't happen.

Speaker 2: Oh, but look, it makes sense.

Speaker 2: It really, really hurt.

Speaker 2: And it was a, it hurt a really deep place, right.

Speaker 2: That I went away for three days that I was with someone else.

Speaker 2: You knew, like you saw something that you knew I was going to meet my ex.

Speaker 2: So you were able to join dots together.

Speaker 2: What was probably happened, which would have meant that it was really painful, really scary.

Speaker 2: And I, yeah, it was terrible.

Speaker 2: Like there's no, like, it makes sense.

Speaker 2: That would have been terrible.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And it makes sense that you, you know, we were not in a committed relationship that you had, you know, this was so early for you to get back into this big, big old anchoring relationship.

Speaker 1: It turns out to be for life, you know, and yeah, and did you had someone come back in and that you had some, you know, juju and unfinished business with and.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: And that you told me and that you kept going, you persevered.

Speaker 1: You didn't, you know, when I said, fuck off, you didn't fuck off.

Speaker 2: You right.

Speaker 2: Came told me to fuck off.

Speaker 1: I did.

Speaker 1: He did.

Speaker 1: I did.

Speaker 1: And then I punished.

Speaker 1: And so anyway, I have to tell you guys, like my, my heart feels lighter.

Speaker 1: Just, just talking.

Speaker 2: Well, oh, that's good.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: I'm glad you shared and you told me how it hurt.

Speaker 2: And look, it's so weird.

Speaker 2: I don't know about you guys, but like, when I look back at different play times in my life and how I oriented to the world, what myself story was like, how I felt good about myself.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Validation.

Speaker 2: And I know we both have this, right.

Speaker 2: So we can, but we can empathize.

Speaker 2: Like, I really do cringe at how important being desirable and, you know, being seductive was for who I thought I was.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: And look, it's so clearly attachment wounding, right.

Speaker 2: Again, like early wounding, not being loved and feeling like I have to become someone else in order to be lovable.

Speaker 2: Um, so it is amazing.

Speaker 2: Just our journey from that moment when we met each other to being together, being anchored together, being securely attached together, getting better and better as a therapist, being a parent, growing a business.

Speaker 2: Like, it's just so, it's almost feels like as a different person.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Like there is no part of me now that gets my sense of like worth in the world or value from being seductive.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: Like it almost seems comical.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: So it's just weird.

Speaker 2: It's just weird to talk about this time where like that part of me ended up.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: It is just the truth of where I was at.

Speaker 2: Like I would have been abandoning myself if I just committed to you instantly.

Speaker 2: But look, it is embarrassing.

Speaker 2: It's I'm literally getting embarrassed by that part of myself.

Speaker 2: And yeah, it's who I am.

Speaker 2: I don't want to rewrite history.

Speaker 2: I don't want to like, let's rewrite the Dr. Seuss books without anything that is upsetting for today.

Speaker 2: This is a part of who I am when my journey, when I was becoming like everything I am today, like it was just a, it was just part of the journey.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I feel like I understand you more just from what you just said, you know, connect.

Speaker 1: Like, I don't, I think of course that makes sense, but it's like somehow my own pain and kind of developmental trauma place that glommed onto this injury.

Speaker 1: I didn't get it.

Speaker 1: I'm getting it in this moment.

Speaker 1: And of course, you know, I can connect with that part of myself and it's kind of cool.

Speaker 1: Like it's kind of, this is going to be silly, but it's like, okay, I like, I like junk food.

Speaker 1: I like, you know, sweet, salt, salty food.

Speaker 1: And then I start to introduce in more healthy food.

Speaker 1: I actually, my body can like crave that healthy food and there's a way that I can crave these other parts less.

Speaker 1: And so that's why I'm almost making sense of needing less sexy, sexy validation, right?

Speaker 1: Which I still have a couple little tendrils of that, but I think I can, I work with it and I channel into our relationship and hopefully be vulnerable.

Speaker 1: And you have at times, you know, talked to me the same about little, it's not like those are bad parts.

Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that's the, that's the junk food part, but it's understanding it and noticing, oh my gosh, that's a less alive and active part.

Speaker 1: Because by the way, I have this.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Is it a conscious part that you, if you, if it's alive, you're conscious of it and it's not leaking out unconsciously, right?

Speaker 2: Which it's great.

Speaker 2: Look, I don't get, again, we could get into all psycho babble, right?

Speaker 2: But most importantly, okay.

Speaker 2: I really appreciate you sharing, right?

Speaker 2: That that really hurt.

Speaker 2: And just getting a glimpse of just the place deep down inside where it left you in the bad things happen.

Speaker 2: Nothing good would happen to me.

Speaker 2: Of course, something good would be taken away.

Speaker 2: You have to live in this.

Speaker 2: We know it ended after three days and you got a chance to protest and I didn't go away, but that was open-ended.

Speaker 2: So that you would have been in a really, really deep, deep place of unlovedness and fear and being alone.

Speaker 2: And it makes sense that it's like, it's still lives inside of you.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: And I, I get it.

Speaker 2: I'm really sorry that you got hurt like that.

Speaker 2: It totally makes sense.

Speaker 2: And, you know, I'm sorry that my actions, you know, led to you getting so hurt and could never happen now because I love you so much.

Speaker 2: And I know like what this wound inside you and I would never, what's most important to me is you and me and our family that, you know, as all of us together, I would never do anything that would like hurt you like that.

Speaker 2: And jeopardize our life, which is the most amazing, best time of my life, this life that we've created together.

Speaker 2: So I love you.

Speaker 2: Thank you for telling me.

Speaker 1: Thanks for being so good at listening and validating.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Figs.

Speaker 1: I'm taking it in.

Speaker 1: It feels lighter for me.

Speaker 1: You guys, just so you know, I just want to say our, like our listeners and viewers, this helps me.

Speaker 1: You guys helped me because I was really scared about it.

Speaker 1: And I swear it's not like, oh, that what happened then hurt so much, which it did.

Speaker 1: It's how Figs and I have talked about it since.

Speaker 1: And I've been part of this sort of not being like, hey, can we talk about this?

Speaker 1: This is where my injury is.

Speaker 1: It's been this passive aggressive, weird thing I've been doing.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well, we've been doing it together, right?

Speaker 2: Like I've been kind of like, ah, you bring it up now in a passive aggressive, funny way.

Speaker 2: And I do a, ah, sure.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Do we have to talk about it?

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So that's how we've done it.

Speaker 1: That's how we've been doing it for the last 11 years.

Speaker 2: We haven't had this depth of a conversation.

Speaker 2: And it doesn't mean that this is the final conversation, right?

Speaker 2: It's really important.

Speaker 2: Like this may have other layers of repair.

Speaker 2: I mean, it just might, right?

Speaker 2: Remember, some conversations are over and over again conversations.

Speaker 2: This may be an over and over again conversation, but it is good to name, right?

Speaker 2: We've been in a system where you bring it up passively and I bring it.

Speaker 2: I then respond with, ah, no, do we have to kind of talk about that?

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: It just meant that we never really named we're in that system and had this depth of a conversation about it.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: Which we don't know.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: And we, again, again, it's interesting.

Speaker 2: This is a podcast.

Speaker 2: You're not actually live here, but you are our witness.

Speaker 2: You hold a space, like a therapist would hold a space for us to be able to process like this without me going, ah, for flip sake, do we have to talk about this?

Speaker 2: And without you making spilling, like, yeah, my needle.

Speaker 2: Or I was being funny.

Speaker 1: Why are you laughing?

Speaker 1: So I want to just, I want to like maybe recap for the viewers and listeners, like what we just did, because I thought it was really powerful.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: So I think one thing is that we slowed down together.

Speaker 1: So notice like, you know, you guys might need a therapist if you've had an injury in your relationship, or you might need to just slow down with your partner.

Speaker 1: So figs and I, our kids are watching the screen right now.

Speaker 1: We're not stressed.

Speaker 2: It's not like a high baby sitters.

Speaker 1: It's Sunday.

Speaker 1: Our kids are doing their hour of screen time.

Speaker 1: And so we slowed down together.

Speaker 1: So I recommend if you're going to try to talk about an injury, usually it'd probably be better with a professional, to be honest.

Speaker 1: But if you're going to try to do it with each other and not do that passive aggressive thing that I've been doing, try to slow down with your partner.

Speaker 1: Notice I said what it's like for me.

Speaker 1: It's scary for me to talk about this right now.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: And so that I know is always disarming for figs.

Speaker 1: And he often does the same thing for me.

Speaker 1: If he has to talk to me about something, it's kind of just opening in.

Speaker 1: And you notice I didn't come in like, why the F did you do this thing?

Speaker 1: Although I can think like that sometimes, right?

Speaker 1: I actually just slowed down.

Speaker 1: Figs was already.

Speaker 1: I know he was kind of scared in the beginning.

Speaker 1: I think you were a little scared.

Speaker 2: Oh, I was scared.

Speaker 2: And I haven't even had myself contract.

Speaker 2: I noticed I sat back.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 2: I went into a bit more of a passive, which it's hard to know what mixture of like just opening, surrendering to what's going to happen versus racing.

Speaker 2: But, you know, yeah, it was definitely threatening.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So it's like we worked through that moment and could have gotten up and said, I don't want to do this because it was a surprise.

Speaker 2: I could just hit stop.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You'd never see this, hear it.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 1: So, and he did feel ambushed, right?

Speaker 1: So a partner might feel ambushed, might lean out, might want to stop it.

Speaker 1: We.

Speaker 2: My turn next.

Speaker 1: We, we seem we exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: It's a tit for tat for real.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: So we slowed down, we worked through some discomfort, right.

Speaker 1: And figs did a lot of like repeating back my pain.

Speaker 2: I don't know if I did a really good job of that.

Speaker 2: I gotta be honest.

Speaker 2: I think I did a lot of conjecture and I repeated back.

Speaker 2: I added stuff.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And you were good.

Speaker 2: I could see I kind of missed you a little bit and I was adding my own thing, which I know was an injury again, but.

Speaker 1: No, it was, there's enough resilience.

Speaker 1: I just felt like you cared.

Speaker 1: And so that's, that's what I, I, I didn't do a great job with that.

Speaker 1: Okay.

Speaker 1: Stop yourself.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I just felt like internally, I was cheering that we're having this conversation and that you hadn't walked out and not wanted to be part of it.

Speaker 1: So I'm proud of myself for bringing it up and I'm proud of you for bringing it up.

Speaker 1: And I'm actually really proud because I got to the thing that I didn't realize what I was really holding on to.

Speaker 1: And I got to tie it back actually to some.

Speaker 1: Developmental trauma that I have and some deep sort of core messages about myself.

Speaker 1: And then from the very beginning, from the very beginning, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Figgs knows.

Speaker 1: And so he, so I just felt like you, you know, I don't know if you guys saw, but Figgs, he saw me crying, his eyes kind of teared up.

Speaker 1: He looked like he really cared about my experience.

Speaker 1: He did explain what was going on inside for him at that time, which totally makes sense.

Speaker 1: And that felt kind of vulnerable and like brave to me.

Speaker 2: And so, I'm glad it landed because it's so easy for the explaining what was going on for me to be a defensive thing.

Speaker 2: So I'm glad it didn't land.

Speaker 2: Like I was being defensive, but as it was tricky, I was a little bit conflicted about how much to share about what was going on with me, that something like that could happen.

Speaker 2: But I'm glad it actually landed as I was being vulnerable, not just being defensive.

Speaker 1: And that's because we were emotionally bonded.

Speaker 1: So you notice that we actually had a productive conversation.

Speaker 1: Like if we had been heightened, if they were, we were escalated and Figgs was saying that I'd be like, you are being defensive.

Speaker 1: But instead I was like, oh yeah, I get that.

Speaker 1: And so it actually softened sort of the corners around my heart around this injury while I was like, I'm so glad that you kept going with me.

Speaker 1: And it's true.

Speaker 1: You didn't get to be suave Figgito for a while.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 2: Whoever Figgito is.

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I met him underneath the dolphin dance.

Speaker 2: Oh my God.

Speaker 1: Hot tub.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Anyway, I feel good.

Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, everyone.

Speaker 1: Appreciate you.

Speaker 1: I got something in my eye.

Speaker 1: All right.

Speaker 1: Well, that means we're out.

Speaker 2: I must be.

Speaker 2: I'm about to cry.

Speaker 2: I got something in my eye.

Speaker 2: Hey, that was really good.

Speaker 2: I'm actually tired.

Speaker 2: That was exhausting.

Speaker 2: I mean, it was.

Speaker 2: It was emotionally intense.

Speaker 1: It was.

Speaker 2: So I'm noticing I'm starting to go into kind of a like a little bit of a low energy few.

Speaker 2: That's a lot.

Speaker 2: So come here.

Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.

Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2: Those of you that think we're out of our minds for sharing this stuff.

Speaker 2: Thank you, too.

Speaker 1: Thank you.

Speaker 2: And all the people that reach out to us.

Speaker 2: I'm blown.

Speaker 2: I am blown away by how many people get value.

Speaker 2: The reason we do this, honestly, like we're so exhausted all the time working as therapists, running the business to mad kids.

Speaker 2: Like the reason we do it is because of how much feedback we get that shows actually really help people.

Speaker 1: It's a lot to us.

Speaker 1: You got.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Like, there's like, don't take this the wrong way.

Speaker 2: I would never do this if you did not reach out and let us know that it's helpful.

Speaker 2: Again, it just takes a lot of emotional lift for me to talk about our relationship, to talk about relationship in general while being recorded.

Speaker 2: So thank you.

Speaker 2: And we'll be back.

Speaker 2: We're coming because of your feedback.

Speaker 2: We want to do this more, not just wait months and months and months for the next episode.

Speaker 2: So thanks for your patience.

Speaker 2: And thanks for listening and watching.

Speaker 2: And peace out.

Speaker 2: Come here to me, fans and casual listeners.

Speaker 2: OK, bye.

Speaker 2: Bye.

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